Curse

Damon Windwalker · Jul 14, 2005, 05:45 PM // 17:45

A lot of people are playing the game for the story. Forcing someone to miss the cutscene is forcing them to miss a good part of the story.

Sure - it sucks to see the same cutscene you've seen a dozen times because 1 person hasn't seen it. But you can wait for 2 damn minutes. You're not losing anything - but if you force them to miss it - the are losing something...

Loviatar · Jul 14, 2005, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adraeus

If the player is a newbie and hasn't ever seen the cinematic, then the other players who have seen the cinematic and don't want to see it again should be able to continue their experience without being halted to wait for some newbie to catch up.

...and I completely disagree. It is not "absolutely okay" for anyone to infringe on the gaming experience of other players. .

you must have gotten an A+ in your self esteam grade.

total hypocrite to say you can ruin the other players game experience just because he wants to see a part of the game you deem unnecessary

you infringe on other peoples gaming experience with no thought of others at all

rwt2006 · Jul 14, 2005, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Reason why it is the way it is is so everyone starts out at the same time so you either all miss it and do whats next or you all watch it and do whats next, if not others would leave maybe 1 person who does want to watch it behind

noblepaladin · Jul 14, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Most cutscenes take less than 1 minute except the one at the end of the mission which can take up to 3 minutes. They should allow the last one to be skipped by individuals and they would instantly be transported to the next town where they can salvage/sell/shop/talk etc and the rest of the people didn't skip should be grayed out like they are loading. The 30 second scene in the middle really shouldn't bother you that much if you have any patience at all.

Eder · Jul 14, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Nice suggestion, that sounds reasonable to me. I don't see a problem with people skipping just the last cutscene of each mission individually.

Gedscho · Jul 14, 2005, 08:18 PM // 20:18

i keep up a lot of enchants through some pve missions, since it helps out the team a lot. its easy for me to do, and basically, when there are no necro or mesmer mobs with the right (or for me: wrong) skills, then i can have a VEEEEEERY relaxed playing experience. i stand back, watch the fight, and give everyone an easy time by reducing damage. i can have a good view of the fight, which is fun, and i can watch for mistakes, possibilities to improve and for targets of opportunity
i sure hope they dont plan to put more enchant breaking mobs in the game....

k, why is this on topic?
BECAUSE those *#!$§ (cry of frustration) cutscenes (which i basically like)
drain my mana, people. AND THIS GETS ME MAD.

when i dont skip, my mana is gone. when i skip, no time expired, and my mana is still there.
stupid....

so: either calculate energy over the time of the cutscene and apply it, even if skipped or just

freeze health and energy during the cutscenes....

that way a party wont die from mobs attacking in the video
and my energy wont die from my toon being too stupid to do what he is supposed to, even during cutscenes. clicking that energy signet, that is.

Adraeus · Jul 15, 2005, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

Does Teamwork mean anything to you?

More than you could possibly imagine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamblemonkee

All you've presented after you're initial post is a lot of hot air and and egotistical me first me first whining in addition to derision of the ability to skip a cutscene if there is a majority vote to do it, by calling it poor design.

The "hot air" is apparently coming from the responders rather than from me. Stay on topic. The current "Skip" function is clearly a violation of the principles of user interaction (usability), and therefore, a product of poor design.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

you must have gotten an A+ in your self esteam grade.

...and you must have received an F- for your spelling grade. Honestly now, do you want to discuss the issue of skipping cinematics? Or me? I'm irrelevant in this topic. Discuss the topic, not me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Maddox

So you're telling me, that it's "Fair" for them to miss out, because you feel your gaming experience is infringed upon..by them wanting to watch a cut scene. So, you take away 'their' gaming experience, for the sake of yours.

When players are provided the choice of watching the cinematics or not, the players do not miss out. The players who choose to continue with the game benefit because their choice to continue positively affects their experience. The players who choose to watch the cinematic benefit because their choice to watch the cinematic positively affects their experience. Would your argument hold up when applied to NPC quest dialogue? Hardly. Unlike cinematics, players are not forced to read dialogue with the rest of the party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrath

If its really that important to you to have the cinematics skipped... then organize a group that agrees to skip them. State at the start, "we're skipping all movies, dont join if you're going to make us watch."

As I wrote previously, setting party "rules" and/or even politely requesting that cinematics be skipped rarely works because there's usually that one player who purposely doesn't skip the cinematic to be a jerk. Party "rules" cannot be enforced and, thus, do not ensure compliance. To use your "use henchmen" cop-out in a similar manner to, hey, if you want to watch a cinematic, watch it on your own time!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eder

If the cutscenes really bother you that much, make sure everyone in your group agrees to skip them before starting the mission. ... Making it not be a consensus model would be a bad idea.

In addition to the above response to bobrath, I ask you to show me a consensus model that has worked in practice. Remember: "consensus" is defined as agreement in the judgment or opinion reached by a group as a whole, which means that "consensus" requires totality (allness), not majority.

Quote:

Originally Posted by baalzamonbarnes

Just because someone is new to the game and wants to watch the cutscenes, you want to penalize them?

Penalty? What penalty? Both newbie and veteran players would be provided with options which they choose to improve their experience instead of both parties being forced to view cinematics regardless of their desire to do so. Are players penalized for choosing to read quest dialogue while the rest of the party ignores the dialogue continues with the game? No.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker

You're not losing anything...

Life exists outside Guild Wars. For those of us that work for a living, there are limits on available time for playing video games. The time wasted on a formerly viewed cinematic is time wasted from the amount of time available to play video games. Moreover, players should not be forced into experiences contrary to the purpose of entertainment. The experiences of players who don't find re-runs entertaining suffer due to a deficiency of functionality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

total hypocrite to say you can ruin the other players game experience just because he wants to see a part of the game you deem unnecessary

I never suggested ruining the experiences of other players. In fact, my suggestion does not infringe on the experiences of either party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noblepaladin

Most cutscenes take less than 1 minute except the one at the end of the mission which can take up to 3 minutes. They should allow the last one to be skipped by individuals and they would instantly be transported to the next town where they can salvage/sell/shop/talk etc and the rest of the people didn't skip should be grayed out like they are loading. The 30 second scene in the middle really shouldn't bother you that much if you have any patience at all.

Sounds good.

MonkE · Jul 15, 2005, 06:26 AM // 06:26

To the OP - Ah come on, you're acting as if this is tantamount to getting teeth pulled

There are actually people out there who haven't seen the story yet and would like to, you can't really fault 'em on that. And here's a suggestion: get up, walked around, grab a drink, take a piss, stretch, and relaaax during the cutscenes. Not trying to tell you what to do, just something I do so frustration doesn't accumulate. And anyone who knows me can tell you a pissed wasp has more patience than I do.

Yeah, all your suggestions are viable but sound like tedious or a lot programming/changes would have to be done while Anet has better things to tend to at the moment, I think.

I think being able to chat during cutscenes doesn't sound difficult to do and would be a great, not make it as tedious for people

And to all you "thanks for NOT SKIPPING" gripers... :P

EmperorTippy · Jul 15, 2005, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adraeus

...and you must have received an F- for your spelling grade. Honestly now, do you want to discuss the issue of skipping cinematics ? Or me? I'm irrelevant in this topic. Discuss the topic, not me.

Just curious why do you tell others how to spell when you are using a word clearly unrelated to the topic being discussed? Click the hyperlink for the definition of cinematics. The word you wanted is cinemas. At least Lovatar used a word that was only 1 letter off. Yours was entirely off topic.

Adraeus · Jul 15, 2005, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

Just curious why do you tell others how to spell when you are using a word clearly unrelated to the topic being discussed? Click the hyperlink for the definition of cinematics. The word you wanted is cinemas. At least Lovatar used a word that was only 1 letter off. Yours was entirely off topic.

In the video game industry, "cinematic" (n.) refers either to a real-time (or scripted) animation of in-game visual assets, or to a pre-rendered Full-Motion Video (FMV) sequence. Both types of cutscenes, or cinematics, are noninteractive. [1] [2] [3] [4]

The term is correctly and appropriately used. Now, stay on topic, please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkE

Yeah, all your suggestions are viable but sound like tedious or a lot programming/changes would have to be done while Anet has better things to tend to at the moment, I think.

One could say the same thing about any and all suggestions. There's nothing wrong with voicing your opinion about what you like and dislike about a game, and how you think the game can be improved. Leave the programming feasibility analyses to the game programmers. Let's just come up with ideas without worrying what the almighty developers will think.

silvertemplar · Jul 15, 2005, 08:28 AM // 08:28

I personally think Anet screwed up here. This is how it SHOULD have been done:

1. Cutscenes at END or BEGINNING of missions, not mid-mission-straight-out-of-combat. (Ideally BEGIN/END = when you arrive at outpost/city where it will not affect your team )

2. Cutscenes should be available to view OUTSIDE of missions once you unlocked them. [i can absolutely not believe this concept did not cross their minds...]

3. Cutscenes should NOT affect your characters while you have no control over them [if i had a gold coin for everytime someone in the party was dead after a cutscene...]

4. Cutscenes should not disable your chat console, this is the ideal time, no make that PERFECT time, to plan ahead [worst case, you chat with your guild about how much your team sucks].

The vote-sytem is very flawed. The team might not yell at me and be considerate, the fact remains, majority of the team wanted to do something else..

Think about it, WHY is such a message displayed in the first place??? Surely if you've seen it before you are going to skip, if you haven't then you are going to view it. So someone, amuse me, why is there a line on top telling me whether other people wants to watch the scene or not... It is plain and simple : To inform YOU whether it's appropriate to watch the scene or not, no other reason.

I mean WTF does it tell you when it says "7 out of 8 people wants to skip this cinematic" . Use the words "TEAM WORK" and "MAJORITY RULE" in your answer. Surely this is detrimental to all new players combined with experienced players....

Shaquira · Jul 15, 2005, 09:46 AM // 09:46

@Silvertemplar

1. I don't agree. For a PVE experience it adds a lot of depth to the way you go through the missions.

2. Agree. Mostly because it also solves another problem i get to later

3. Agree. However if you character is attacked during the cinematic you will see / hear it happen. This forces you to skip if you want to live though

4. I don't find it that limiting. Most off the time you will have ample time to discuss thinga inside missions. There is only a few occasions where time taken to do the mission matters. I play a lot with henchman and have dinner inside missions and quests ;-)

To your last point ... majority rules? I DO NOT AGREE
I just got the game and on my first time through the game i WANT to see the cinematics. However if point 2 would be implemented i could watch them later and go with the group.

Shaquira Lowlands

Adraeus · Jul 15, 2005, 09:55 AM // 09:55

RE: silvertemplar

Thanks for mentioning the unlocking and replay of cinematics issue. If cinematics needed to be unlocked in order to be replayed, that would add another element to the game specifically targeting those entertained by the development Guild Wars story. Some cinematics could be hidden throughout the game and only play under certain conditions. This would give the storyrunners something to do after completing the game beyond Ascension. In addition, this could also serve as a method of transforming the static and rather dry fable into a dynamic environment in which players may develop their characters; that is, with new cinematics implemented into the game every now and then.

silvertemplar · Jul 15, 2005, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Quote:

1. I don't agree. For a PVE experience it adds a lot of depth to the way you go through the missions.

In-mission "experience" can very easily be limited to "real-time" dialogues. The scenes are basically zooming into the engine [if it was blizzard style cinematics then i wouldn't actually complain so much about this]. So what i'm saying is, do the "sit back and watch" stuff begin/end of missions, do the "NPC tells you what to do" in-game with me being able to walk around. Example: Elona Reach, no reason to cut-out into a cutscene when you bring the ghost the first crytal, the same could've been achieved merely by having the ghost stand there and tell his tale, i'm sure voice-dialogue don't have to be restricted to cutscenes only?

Quote:

3. Agree. However if you character is attacked during the cinematic you will see / hear it happen. This forces you to skip if you want to live though

Actually, alot of people either do not see or hear or do not think it actually kills the party and do not end up skipping the cutscene [nevermind the plot hole developing due to having to skip it]. In fact, i know alot of people [including myself] use cutscenes to run off the bathroom/get food/whatever and will not see it happening always.

Quote:

4. I don't find it that limiting. Most off the time you will have ample time to discuss thinga inside missions. There is only a few occasions where time taken to do the mission matters. I play a lot with henchman and have dinner inside missions and quests ;-)

Well, it's just something that will be convenient, obviously if they can resolve cutscenes as mentioned in my previous point, you won't need this as you can view cutscenes at your own leisure.

Quote:

To your last point ... majority rules? I DO NOT AGREE
I just got the game and on my first time through the game i WANT to see the cinematics. However if point 2 would be implemented i could watch them later and go with the group.

No, i did not suggest that movie gets skipped if the majority of the team wants to skip it, no [that would be an even worse route to go]. It's just they put in a vote system on something that really are not something you can possibly "vote" on.

Personally? I feel obligated to move on if 7/8 of the team wants to skip, even if i haven't seen the movie....so indirectly i feel pressured based on the "vote" being displayed...not exactly what i want in a cutscene.

In other words they don't have to put that line on top, could've left it at the skip button only. If all skip, movie ends, no reason to see how many actually wants to skip, is that sentence suppose to change my mind about watching the movie?

You are either a first-timer or not, there's nothing to vote about, unless you generally believe the scenes suck and have no interest in them.

=HT=Ingram · Jul 15, 2005, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Oh and the reason you are quickly Dying, is cause you go and run to the guy to get to the cut scene instead of PLAYING the game and fighting to clear the area before starting it. Only a MORON would expect to run into a huge crowd to rush the cut-scene and expect to be safe for the plot. Try actually PLAYING the game instead of running everywhere... thats not playing, thats running like a chicken with its head cut off, and using everyone else as meat shields.

Queen_Obadhaie · Jul 15, 2005, 10:47 AM // 10:47

I personaly think that they should implement a chat function to the Cut-Scenes. Dont get me wrong though, I really enjoy the cutscenes... alot of time went into them so the plot would thicken.

silvertemplar · Jul 15, 2005, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

Thanks for mentioning the unlocking and replay of cinematics issue. If cinematics needed to be unlocked in order to be replayed, that would add another element to the game specifically targeting those entertained by the development Guild Wars story. Some cinematics could be hidden throughout the game and only play under certain conditions. This would give the storyrunners something to do after completing the game beyond Ascension. In addition, this could also serve as a method of transforming the static and rather dry fable into a dynamic environment in which players may develop their characters; that is, with new cinematics implemented into the game every now and then.

Actually yes, i'm kinda surprised they didn't make more use of it. I'm playing Chronicles of Riddick on the side, and guess what, you not only unlock Video Clips, but Game Art,Background Stories and various other fuzzy stuff you can later look at outside the game. Heck with such a system they can even unlock the actual background script/text of the plot for those of us that didn't buy the box and just the online key [which do not come with a nice manual you can read in bed]

Quote:

Only a MORON would expect to run into a huge crowd to rush the cut-scene and expect to be safe for the plot. Try actually PLAYING the game instead of running everywhere... thats not playing, thats running like a chicken with its head cut off, and using everyone else as meat shields.

Sadly, this is also being exploited. They don't call that Ironmines mission the "infusion run" for nothing. Your entire team runs, only 1 have to reach the cutscene and bam entire team all nicely standing in a row all rezzed ready to complete the mission [and you basically saved your entire parrty an hour of endless fighting]. [sarcasm] Maybe they'll fix it when we abuse it....[/sarcasm]

Adraeus · Jul 15, 2005, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queen_Obadhaie

...a lot of time went into [the cutscenes].

Er, not necessarily. The cinematics are not prerendered Full-Motion Video, like Toy Story or the Final Fantasy 7 FMV sequences. The Guild Wars cutscenes use in-game resources coupled with a UI and Camera lock in order to inexpensively fake, or attempt to fake, the user into a movie-like experience. The dialogue and animation is scripted to execute when certain events transpire. The only time-consuming component of the Guild Wars cinematics would probably be the voiceovers, which required developing a screenplay from the dialogue bible and the actors' time. Other than the voiceovers, the type of cinematic used in Guild Wars can be easily and quickly duplicated by an amateur 3D game programmer as, for example, a solution to a lack of funding for FMV.

Damon Windwalker · Jul 15, 2005, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adraeus

Life exists outside Guild Wars. For those of us that work for a living, there are limits on available time for playing video games. The time wasted on a formerly viewed cinematic is time wasted from the amount of time available to play video games. Moreover, players should not be forced into experiences contrary to the purpose of entertainment. The experiences of players who don't find re-runs entertaining suffer due to a deficiency of functionality.

Cute attempt at a flame, but your self-importance doesn't impress me.

Yes, some of us work for a living. Some of us also, in addition to working full-time also go to school full time. Some of us, in addition to working and going to school full time are also raising a family. Soem of us, in addition to working and going to school full-time and raising a family are also involved in an active physical ffitness program that has us at the gym for a few hours per night 3 or more nights per week. Don't talk to me about limited time to play.

Your self-importance doesn't impress me. You are no more important than any other player in the game - they paid for it, just like you did. If they want to watch the cutscenes, that's their right, and you have no say in hindering them from getting their full money's owrth out of the game.

What's 2 minutes? 2 minutes is nothing at all.

MonkE · Jul 15, 2005, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adraeus

One could say the same thing about any and all suggestions. There's nothing wrong with voicing your opinion about what you like and dislike about a game, and how you think the game can be improved. Leave the programming feasibility analyses to the game programmers. Let's just come up with ideas without worrying what the almighty developers will think.

Not necessarily, it seems like you're just overcomplicating things by making a specialized place for people go to, setting up a boundary so you can't run too far...

Ok, after getting by this self-importance-screw-everyone-else attitude you have going here.. It does seem like you're penalizing someone who wanted to watch the cutscenes by not being able to get xp/items/etc from drops if say they were still watching the cutscene.

Basically it shouldn't be a choice between items/xp and watching the cutscenes.

Besides that, it's ridiculous to run off without one of your team members. It really turns it to a "every man for himself" situation and that doesn't usually work, and newbies would be peer-pressured into skipping, thus not getting the storyline (assuming they cared in the first place).

Plus I can see situations cropping where a true newbie does skip, and finds him/herself back in the map, runs off to kill/die unnecessarily.. not good at all.

I suppose you could argue well WHAT ABOUT ME WAH I DUN WANNA WATCH IT - so don't. If it reeeally bothers you that much, don't go with a pug, go with friends or guildies and have an understanding that, we've all seen this, so we can all skip it going.

Now, being able to chat during cutscnes (make use of those black bars), even maybe open up your inventory to sift through your items thusfar is a little more balanced

As for the odd jerk that never skips....well there are just people like that.